2x2 Conventions, Annual Meetings

Conventions of the 2x2 religion, older brothers, workers, money elders and friends are the annual conventions held on convention grounds owned by professing people or a trust.

typical convention view

Common convention view: a tent, loudspeakers and professing women wearing hair in buns

How Did Conventions Start?

Being raised in a professing home, I knew that the workers preached against against church buildings and church property. And supposedly Sunday morning meetings were a continuation of passover (or so I was told). And Bible studies were held in homes. And "gospel meetings" were supposed to be like Paul preaching in synagogue on sabbath? So then the unanswered, nagging question I had as a teenager and adult was, "Where are conventions in the Bible?". If we are following the Bible, then where are conventions in the Bible?

Where are conventions in the Bible? Where do you have hundreds of people gathered on private property (or property owned by overseers in a trust), under a meeting shed, with kitchen facilities, dorms, showers, restrooms and other accessories for hundreds or thousands of people? I've never had this question answered by anyone. I even brought up the question in the question-session that some workers have at "sings" for kids. I was sincere in asking. The workers sometimes even encourage people to search the scripture to see if what they say is true. You may have wondered where conventions are in the Bible also. Especially since workers condemn church property so harshly. As a kid, I even heard workers say that people who preached in buildings were of the devil.

Have you heard, or did you know somehow that preachers who preached in church buildings were going to hell? And wasn't it the same workers who also who said that preachers had to preach what the congregations wanted to hear in order to get enough money in collections to pay for the buildings?

Why would we have all this church property for conventions and convention grounds and then only use them for about 4 - 8 days out of the year? If church buildings of "false preachers" (which were used all year around) were a burden to churches. And if these same church buildings caused temptations to preachers to pander to the rich in the congregation...Then what does that say about conventions? Wouldn't that cause workers to pander to rich people to continue their conventions?

Where is the logic? Or the possible reasoning? or their justification? Conventions grounds and church property are only used a few days out of the year for conventions. Many convention buildings with their accessories take weeks of preparation.

If church buildings by these false preachers who are going to hell (according to workers) get a full year of use, then could we righteously condemn them to hell when we had property that only got used by the church for 1/100 of that amount of time in a year? Isn't this hypocrisy?

Are "2x2 Conventions" in the Scripture?

After a "sing", workers allowed us to write down questions on a piece of paper. The workers would choose a few questions and attempt to answer them. So I asked a question, it was this - "Where conventions are in the Bible?".

One answer I got from one worker was that conventions are "like" the Feasts of the LORD. Can it be? There were many feasts of the LORD throughout the year. They were celebrated at very specific times of the year. The three big feasts are passover (around March or April on Gregorian Calendar), then 7 weeks plus one day later on Pentecost and then on the 7th month (Jewish calendar months). So there were specific times during the year, set by God, when these feasts were held. But conventions of workers are held nearly every week of the year around the world. They are not at times set by God and definitely not held on these three times of the year that God laid out. The feasts of the LORD were held in Jerusalem. Ever heard of workers going to Jerusalem for the feasts of the LORD? I haven't. They hold conventions instead.

The three major feasts of the Bible are 7 days in length. Conventions are mostly 3-4 days. I have not heard of a 7 day convention.

The feasts of Passover began with a holy day in which no servile work was to be done. It was a sabbath. Conventions typically start on Wednesday. I have never heard a worker saying the first day of convention is a sabbath. And the friends work on this day.

During the first feast of the year, Passover, no leavened bread is to be eaten for seven days. At conventions we ate leavened bread. There was not even a mention of not eating leavened bread. The only thing I remember about bread at convention was a worker preaching against whole wheat bread that wasn't ground up enough, and there were some crunchy kernels. He said that we should all blend in and there should be no individuality. That wasn't about leaven at all. It sounded more like this worker trying to tell people in his field the next year that he personally liked finely ground bread and didn't want any whole grain bread, and was making the point that he wanted everyone to "fit in".

When Conventions Made Sense

When I learned that William Irvine was a worker in the Faith Mission and that the Faith Mission had conventions, then wow! All the questions about conventions finally made sense. We weren't having conventions because they were in the scripture. No, we were having conventions because William Irvine used to preach for the Faith Mission and they had conventions. That made sense and explained everything.

The same Faith Mission in Ireland stills sends out its own workers in pairs and has conventions too. William Irvine used to preach for the Faith mission.

So now I could ask more questions about conventions, and the answers came easy:
Why were conventions held in big tents? The Faith Mission did it that way.
Why did early workers own tents and carry out tent missions? That's the way the Faith Mission workers did things

The Faith Mission still has tent missions. http://www.faithmission.org.
William Irvine just did what he was used to doing.

Conventions - Fundamental to the 2x2 Religion

Jack Carroll - There are two fundamentals of the faith of Jesus that are vital to a true understanding and interpretation as recorded in the New Testament. First, the church in the home, and the home only; secondly, the preacher without a home. These two are foundational.

Do the workers and friends fellowship at conventions? If so, then according to 2x2 leader Jack Carroll, this is against the will of God. He says the church must be in the home and the home only. The irony of this, is that Jack Carroll preached this to "the church" at convention (not in a home).

Why cannot the overseers and workers see they are preaching one thing (that is not in the Bible) and doing another? It is hypocrisy to say only church in home and then have conventions, and even preach about this at a convention.

Conventions Essential to 2x2 Religion

Conventions are so essential to the 2x2 religion. You get lots of 2x2s together and "think 2x2" for 3-4 days. It is only under such intense peer influence and pressure of the workers that you can convince people to become workers and continue the program for another year. I see how important conventions are to the older brothers because many of the registered business names include the word "convention" in the title. For example, the 2x2 organization is registered as Christian Conventions of Victoria in Australia. And Willis Propp incorporated in Canada as Alberta Society of Christian Conventions. For other registered business names see Registered Names.

Convention Collections

I think this one quote says a lot:

Well, they don't pass a collection plate -- but I was a few years figuring out that the greeter at the entrance to the convention grounds was doing more than passing out speakers lists.

Serving Tables

Acts 6:2  Then the twelve called the multitude of the disciples unto them, and said, It is not reason that we should leave the word of God, and serve tables.

You will find workers serving tables, in charge of cooking, kitchen, dining, in charge of setting up the whole convention etc. Of course they have left off the word of God long ago when they made up their own gospel.

Church Convention Grounds - Church Property

The place where conventions are held are called "Convention grounds". They generally consist of:

Church Real Estate

Convention grounds are usually located on many acres of property, paid for or subsidized by the overseers or owned in a trust with money provided by overseers that they get from wealthy friends who die and leave them money to be used without conditions put on it.

Church Buildings

  • Meeting halls, meeting sheds or meeting tents
  • A house with many rooms for senior workers
  • Dormitories with many beds and mattresses for brother workers
  • Dormitories with many beds and mattresses for sister workers
  • Dormitories with many beds and mattresses for women friends of the workers
  • Dormitories with many beds and mattresses for male friends of the workers
  • Kitchen building
  • Dining halls, dining tents
  • Bathrooms for workers
  • Bathrooms for friends of the workers

Church Possessions

  • benches, chairs by the hundreds
  • the Platform that lifts the worker up in the eyes of the crowd
  • wireless microphones, dozens of wires, speakers, amplifiers
  • walk-in freezers
  • refrigerators
  • ovens
  • ranges
  • boilers
  • toasters
  • vegetable peeling machines
  • cutting tables
  • serving trays, serving utensils
  • hundreds of trays, forks, knives, spoons
  • dishwashing facilities
  • steamers
  • dozens of mattresses
  • bedding, blankets
  • pillows
  • showers: often just for senior workers, workers etc
  • toilet facilities,
  • RV parking and hookups,
  • acres of parking for many automobiles and so on.
  • many days of preparation
  • drills, circular saws, table saws, bandsaws, drill presses, welders, torches, saw, axes, shovels, picks, rakes, hoes
  • asking the friends of the workers to come out and help at the church property

While the overseers may preach that people who have church buildings are going to hell, they always make exceptions for their convention grounds. I've simply concluded that it is a real estate asset way of banking money from their large trust funds.


There is one main reason for conventions: to collect money and more workers. Conventions are where the workers are exalted and where children are subjected to dozens of hours of preaching and when they are the most tired in the evening and surrounded by hundreds of followers who are adoring the workers, the meetings are tested.

Regarding collecting money, the workers are to bring all the money they've collected and saved throughout the year and are to give it to the overseer or the senior worker in charge of the convention. Also, the young people who are going to become workers are required to gather all their possessions, sell them and bring them to the overseer.

The Tools of Convention Recruitment:

Tools of convention recruitment are:

  • isolation from society for 3-4 days
  • surrounded by workers pressuring kids to profess (which kid didn't know that people professed at conventions?)
  • surrounded by workers encouraging kids to become workers
  • surrounded by parents who wanted their kids to profess
  • surrounded by parents who wanted their kids to become workers
  • subjected to hours of worker preaching at a time (no Christian pastors allowed to preach)
  • encouraged to stay "on the grounds" for the whole convention...

Successful recruitment for the work, as the call it, involves a candidate to sell their home, land, property, business, and other "worldly belongings" except for suit, tie, luggage, briefcase etc and give all the money to the overseer to become a worker and collect money for the overseer.

Finding a Date

The second main purpose of convention is to give young professing kids a place to go to find a spouse. Also, non-professing kids are encouraged to attend in hopes they will meet a professing person and come to meetings to profess in order to marry. Since the 2x2s are encouraged by the overseers and workers to only marry within "the fold" (their denomination), then the young professing kids need to interact and meet more people than just what they find in their local Sunday morning meetings, Sunday gospel meetings etc and convention is just the place for that, or so the workers think.

Conventions By Overseers and Workers- Purpose

The idea of conventions was copied from the Faith Mission to which William Irvine originally belonged. The purpose of conventions by William Irvine was to foster an environment that encourages stronger mind control than in the other meetings and the presence of their "spirit" strong enough to get their followers to become workers like them. And of course, when the people believe they need to sell all, they get the money.

Conventions requires providing for all their food and then brain washing them for hours on end for several days. Here's the routine:

  1. 7:00 AM - feed them breakfast,
  2. 10:00 AM - 2 hours brainwashing in morning meeting, 12:00 PM lunch,
  3. 2:45PM or 3:00 PM - 2 hours brain washing at afternoon meeting,
  4. 5:00 PM - supper,
  5. 7:00 PM - brainwashing in evening meeting,
  6. 8:30 PM hot chocolate so professing kids can meet and talk
  7. 9:00 PM go to sleep.

Now imagine this for three days straight. Kids would think it's normal to "profess". Three to four days of brainwashing three times a day and being surrounded by professing people who are friends of the workers has a very powerful effect on naive, poor children. The workers don't want people to leave the convention grounds because the want the friends to get the full effect of the conventions. Conventions were used by William Irvine from the very beginning to gain workers. These people who "offered for the work" had to sell everything and give it to William Irvine to become workers. A couple hundred years later, people who want to become workers are still required to sell everything before they can become a worker. This is a prominent feature of cults. This gives the overseers and older brothers more control and power over these peoples lives.

Conventions - Twisted Scriptures

For all the obsession that workers have over "meetings in the home", there is no scripture that even they can twist to support their annual conventions. I looked in the Bible for "conventions" or anything like conventions and did not find anything. The only thing the workers have to talk about even close to conventions are the holy feasts of the LORD that were appointed at specific times during the year. But having looked at the feasts, they are nothing like conventions. The workers and their followers eat leavened bread during conventions, they do not fast and they most certainly do not offer sacrifices to the God of heaven. In fact, from the behavior exhibited by workers, I don't believe the workers even know God. They seem to be just blindly following the traditions they have learned from the early workers. Monkey see- monkey do.

Conventions of the workers and the friends do not follow any practice or commandment or tradition of the apostles at all. Jesus Christ never taught or set up 2x2 convention grounds. Jesus Christ never collected money to build convention buildings. Jesus Christ didn't gather money from a church and use it to make a few private individuals wealthy. If you think you have some Bible verses to support the 2x2 conventions fully, just put them in the contact form at the bottom of this page with your name and contact information and send them to me.

Conventions - Young Adults and Sex

Some young adults use a convention as an excuse for unsupervised absence from their parents from which the young men and women cover their sexual activities. Which makes perfect sense because some workers do this too. Young men and women may go together on road trips together without their parents around, getting a motel along the way. Or may leave the convention to engage in their activities while their parents think that they are at convention.

CONVENTIONS - Child Sexual Abuse

See Bob Williston - Convention and also Raped at Convention

If you have gone to conventions in California, please see Ruben Mata

Conventions - a Time for Workers to Play "House"

Workers at preps (preps is short for "preparations" or the preparing of the convention land for the convention) times conventions are like little kids "playing house". It is one of the few times that they construct, maintain and build things.

Hooking Up

Young single people go to conventions in other states to find a spouse. As one man said "If you want to find peaches, go to the orchard". Many young girls find it easy to hookup, exchange email addresses and IDs for chat sessions and video exchanges. It is no surprise the the young folks use conventions as a place to hookup based on what happens with the workers.

Conventions - Time of Year

Conventions are held annually and convention dates are set by overseers working together. They are timed so that 2x2 overseers and 2x2 workers can travel through the US and other parts of the world and attend the conventions sequentially for almost a whole year. This is similar to how a rock band would tour the country, so in the same way overseers and workers tour the country with conventions. On occasion, there may be two or three smaller conventions happening at the same time in which case the workers are divided among the smaller conventions.

Convention Locations

Conventions are located at a place determined by the overseer on property that is usually "owned" by an individual or by a trust controlled by an elder of whom the overseer trusts. The property and buildings may have been paid for in full or part by the friends collections. Sometimes 2x2 overseers or the older brothers provide money for property and buildings. 2x2 overseers are very careful to choose a place where the owner is very convinced of the cult's indoctrination. They are usually held at the same location from year to year because of all the property accumulated and work that has gone into improving the buildings for eating, sleeping and 2x2 indoctrination.

The Naming of Conventions

Often the place where the conventions are held are called "convention grounds" or "the grounds" by the friends of the workers. More specifically, the conventions are named after the city they are located in or around. For conventions that are spread out over two weeks, the title may include a number to specify the first or second week of it's proceedings. For example, "Boring I" would be the first week of the convention located in Boring, Oregon, and Boring 2 would be the second week.

Financing of Conventions

With all the people and meals to be served as required by the overseer, it creates a large demand for money. From my experience, the money is brought by the friends and handed to the workers in envelopes. The financing of conventions is not public. No records are kept for the friends to review. Again, the 2x2 religion is a for-profit enterprise of the overseers. Also, older brothers at the direction of the 2x2 overseer may ask the all the 2x2 "home convention" workers at the convention to give them all their money. They then take whatever money they want and give some money back to each individual. This was my experience at the Boring Oregon Conventions and the experience of hundreds of other workers.

Convention Property - Dispute of Ownership

Sometimes when the owners of the convention grounds leaves the cult and decides to sell the property, then there is a dispute as to who owns what when the workers have given money to build church buildings on it.

Convention Land and Property

Sometimes the workers or overseers will give money to the owners to buy some property or help make mortgage payments. I have heard during preaching at Boring Oregon the debate as to whether the workers own the convention grounds or if it is actually owned by the individuals whose name is on the title because the workers have given them so much money. There are no publicized records of where the money comes from to build these huge buildings for the purpose of meeting once a year. The group has often denounced Christian churches for building churches that they use every day. But this group spends tens of thousands of dollars on buildings and supplies that are used for maybe 2 weeks out of the year.

Convention Tool Property

The group claims to have no common church property specifically for the group, but it is obvious that when they purchase supplies for a huge convention, it is not for the cows in the field or the trees growing in the nursery. Sometimes in the shops, the tools will be labeled "Boring Convention Grounds" or "Boring Convention" or "Convention" to distinguish tools donated by followers for use during the preparations for the conventions.

Convention Furnishings

Because there are many people that attend the convention, there is a large quantity of chairs and benches. This is also the group's joint property. It is certain that these benches and chairs are not for the cows or trees on the land.

2x2 Conventions and the IRS

It would be interesting to see what an IRS agent could find on tax deductions of convention ground owners.

Some of many Conventions in the Northwest

Dennis and Zoe Rumsey of Boring, Oregon are part of this group. They "own" the "convention grounds" at Boring Oregon where many members of the group meet once a year.

Boring Oregon Convention

Dennis and Zoeanne Rumsey 17905 SE Tickle Creek Road Boring, OR 97009 503-658-2000

Parma Idaho 2x2 Convention

Dave Waldo 32279 Apple Valley Road Parma, ID 83660 208-722-5513

Saginaw Oregon 2x2 Convention

Milo LiaBraaten 32852 Saginaw W. Road Saginaw, OR 97472 541-942-3264 Here's a partial list of

Western 2x2 Conventions in the US

Casa Grande, AZ
Santee, Ca (removed)
Shelter Valley, CA
Buttonwillow, CA
Mountain Ranch, CA
Juneau, AK
Bonners Ferry, ID
Chelan, WA
Walla Walla, WA
Devon, MT
Post Falls, ID
Parma, ID
Chugwater, WY
Dagman, MT
Manhattan, MT
Cody, WY
Wasilla, AK
Cody, WY
Wasilla, AK
Milltown, WA
Olympia, WA
Saginaw OR
Boring OR
Honolulu, HI

Parma Idaho
Happy Texas Convention
George Town Texas Convention
Mountain Peak Texas Convention
Texarkana Texas Convention

Western Canadian Conventions

Mellowdale, AB
Theodore, SK
Prince George, BC
Hythe, AB
Greenshields, AB
Emo, ON
Salmon Arm, BC
Didsbury, AB
Smeaton, SK
Bowsman, MB
Didsbury, AB
Aylesbury, SK
Portage la Prairie, MB
Duncan, BC
Glen Valley, BC

Moving Conventions

Convention Day











North Leyte


Olympia , WA




Paris, TN

Perry, OK

Pulaski, VA



San Juan

Sharon, OH

Shelby, NC

South Leyte


Utica, SD

Vanderbilt, MI

Wisconsin Dells, WI

Yellow Springs, OH

York, NE


Alma, MI

Altamont, NY

Antioch, NE

Bird City, KS

Blackwater, MO

Boyden, IA

Bradley, OK

Brownstown, IL

Carsonville, MI

Cassatt, SC

Clever, MO

Denton, NC

Downings, VA

Edgewood, NM

Effie, LA

Independence, KS

Jackson, MS

Knoxville, TN

Madisonville, KY

Malcom, IA

Mandan, ND

Marion, WI

Marysville, KS

McCordsville, IN

Menomonie, WI

Milltown, WA

Mt Sterling, IL

Seneca, IL

Shoals, IN

Demorest, GA

Honolulu, HI

Metter, GA

Apopka, FL

Shelter Valley, CA Convention

Casa Grande, AZ

Fosters, AL

Juneau, AK

Mountain Ranch, CA

Rogers, AR

Santee, CA

Convention Photos

Convention Preps




Bonners Ferry
















Eagle Bend




Faroe Islands



Glen Valley




Hector Convention




Iron Bridge








Monaghan Ireland

Monaghan NL





Parma ID

Portage La Prairie

Post Falls

Prince George





Salmon Arm

Salvisa, KY













Walla walla



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